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	<title>Comments on: Extreme Processing: RF Energy Harvesting</title>
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	<link>http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/05/28/extreme-processing-rf-energy-harvesting/</link>
	<description>Shedding Light on the Hidden World of Embedded Systems</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous @EM</title>
		<link>http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/05/28/extreme-processing-rf-energy-harvesting/#comment-877</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous @EM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 21:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robert.blogs.embeddedinsights.com/2010/05/28/extreme-processing-rf-energy-harvesting/#comment-877</guid>
		<description>My old SW radio antenna gave me a shock in the same way, except the real reason is that in the 50&#039;s there were no 3 way grounded AC plugs. That means if you plug the AC one way the chassis was gnd, flip it over and it was hot, and so was the antenna.

Harvesting available RF makes sense, but using transmitters does not. Besides the signal interference that a transmitter would cause, it is incredibly inefficient and wasteful.

Even so, RFIDs are an exception where the inefficiency is worth the savings in the receiver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My old SW radio antenna gave me a shock in the same way, except the real reason is that in the 50&#8242;s there were no 3 way grounded AC plugs. That means if you plug the AC one way the chassis was gnd, flip it over and it was hot, and so was the antenna.</p>
<p>Harvesting available RF makes sense, but using transmitters does not. Besides the signal interference that a transmitter would cause, it is incredibly inefficient and wasteful.</p>
<p>Even so, RFIDs are an exception where the inefficiency is worth the savings in the receiver.</p>
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		<title>By: KG. @EM</title>
		<link>http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/05/28/extreme-processing-rf-energy-harvesting/#comment-876</link>
		<dc:creator>KG. @EM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 21:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robert.blogs.embeddedinsights.com/2010/05/28/extreme-processing-rf-energy-harvesting/#comment-876</guid>
		<description>beam your RF through my property and I will harvest it ...

and the law be damned.

With enough (admittedly controversial) evidence to indicate that RF radiation at sufficiently high local energy levels is harmful to people, I say it is a fair trade. No body is paying me to use my airspace as a medium for their transmissions, so if I can tap off some of that trespassing energy to do useful (to me) work,. so much the better.
But note that I don&#039;t think this will ever be useful for any practical purpose beyond small gadgets (unless you happen to live across the street from Radio Berlin).
Also note that energy can also be harvested from high voltage transmission lines in the same way. My grandfather ran the electric fence chargers on his farm from a 300 foot long strand of wire runnning parallel to the high line for decades this way. No doubt at all that this was costing the electric company something since in this case what we had was a physically large single turn transformer subject to the usual transformer energy transform formulae.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>beam your RF through my property and I will harvest it &#8230;</p>
<p>and the law be damned.</p>
<p>With enough (admittedly controversial) evidence to indicate that RF radiation at sufficiently high local energy levels is harmful to people, I say it is a fair trade. No body is paying me to use my airspace as a medium for their transmissions, so if I can tap off some of that trespassing energy to do useful (to me) work,. so much the better.<br />
But note that I don&#8217;t think this will ever be useful for any practical purpose beyond small gadgets (unless you happen to live across the street from Radio Berlin).<br />
Also note that energy can also be harvested from high voltage transmission lines in the same way. My grandfather ran the electric fence chargers on his farm from a 300 foot long strand of wire runnning parallel to the high line for decades this way. No doubt at all that this was costing the electric company something since in this case what we had was a physically large single turn transformer subject to the usual transformer energy transform formulae.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous @EM</title>
		<link>http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/05/28/extreme-processing-rf-energy-harvesting/#comment-875</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous @EM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 20:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robert.blogs.embeddedinsights.com/2010/05/28/extreme-processing-rf-energy-harvesting/#comment-875</guid>
		<description>Power Sucking?

@T.

Was the radio station transmitter amplifier on some sort of feedback loop for power output? This seems counter intuitive that the clotheslines would &quot;suck&quot; the power out. Someone turned up the amp not knowing that there was a power sink. Measuring the power output of the transmission at some range using a theoretical efficiency number.

@ A.

Given the dispersion of radio waves you aren&#039;t going to &quot;attract them&quot; with a harvester, only absorb the ones headed in your direction and potentially cause dead spots behind you as they are absorbed, so the closer you are to the transmitter, the greater the arc of your dead spot. Where is this illegal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Power Sucking?</p>
<p>@T.</p>
<p>Was the radio station transmitter amplifier on some sort of feedback loop for power output? This seems counter intuitive that the clotheslines would &#8220;suck&#8221; the power out. Someone turned up the amp not knowing that there was a power sink. Measuring the power output of the transmission at some range using a theoretical efficiency number.</p>
<p>@ A.</p>
<p>Given the dispersion of radio waves you aren&#8217;t going to &#8220;attract them&#8221; with a harvester, only absorb the ones headed in your direction and potentially cause dead spots behind you as they are absorbed, so the closer you are to the transmitter, the greater the arc of your dead spot. Where is this illegal?</p>
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		<title>By: L.S. @EM</title>
		<link>http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/05/28/extreme-processing-rf-energy-harvesting/#comment-874</link>
		<dc:creator>L.S. @EM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 20:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robert.blogs.embeddedinsights.com/2010/05/28/extreme-processing-rf-energy-harvesting/#comment-874</guid>
		<description>When I was a youngster in the 50&#039;s, I had a Heathkit shortwave radio which used a long-wire antenna. I noticed that I got a shock from the antenna wire (when the radio was plugged in and the antenna attached). Excitedly, I assumed that I somehow had &quot;free&quot; power, so wired a 120V lamp from the antenna to ground. The lamp glowed - at least until the receiver&#039;s AC- line bypass capacitor exploded. Later in my career, I realized that the bypass cap must have been shorted and the chassis was raised to line potential. Since the antenna input was connect to the chassis through an RF coupling transformer, the antenna was also raised to line potential.

In this case, at least, no free lunch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was a youngster in the 50&#8242;s, I had a Heathkit shortwave radio which used a long-wire antenna. I noticed that I got a shock from the antenna wire (when the radio was plugged in and the antenna attached). Excitedly, I assumed that I somehow had &#8220;free&#8221; power, so wired a 120V lamp from the antenna to ground. The lamp glowed &#8211; at least until the receiver&#8217;s AC- line bypass capacitor exploded. Later in my career, I realized that the bypass cap must have been shorted and the chassis was raised to line potential. Since the antenna input was connect to the chassis through an RF coupling transformer, the antenna was also raised to line potential.</p>
<p>In this case, at least, no free lunch.</p>
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		<title>By: T.L. @EM</title>
		<link>http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/05/28/extreme-processing-rf-energy-harvesting/#comment-873</link>
		<dc:creator>T.L. @EM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 20:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robert.blogs.embeddedinsights.com/2010/05/28/extreme-processing-rf-energy-harvesting/#comment-873</guid>
		<description>Power Harvesting or Power Sucking?

A little bit of nice history: when Radio Berlin was first set up in last century&#039;s 20&#039;s, gardeners in nearby garden plots found that their metallic clothesline (yes that was when plastics were not very widespread) were carrying measureable voltages. It sufficed to connect a bulb between the line and ground (literally) to light their evening beer and barbecue. Nice early example of energy harvesting?
Not nice for all: the downside was that the radio station had to exchange their power tubes much more often than anticipated. The power for the lighting was literally sucked out of the transmitter which got overloaded. That&#039;s why this early and practical way of energy harvesting got forbidden ever since. Wonder what happens if you place energy suckers near enough to other types of transmitters? Will these transmitters go bust as well? Will the drain of power be noticed and the transmitter cranks up the power to compensate - which completely disrupts the idea of only harvesting energy that is there &quot;anyway&quot; and &quot;for free&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Power Harvesting or Power Sucking?</p>
<p>A little bit of nice history: when Radio Berlin was first set up in last century&#8217;s 20&#8242;s, gardeners in nearby garden plots found that their metallic clothesline (yes that was when plastics were not very widespread) were carrying measureable voltages. It sufficed to connect a bulb between the line and ground (literally) to light their evening beer and barbecue. Nice early example of energy harvesting?<br />
Not nice for all: the downside was that the radio station had to exchange their power tubes much more often than anticipated. The power for the lighting was literally sucked out of the transmitter which got overloaded. That&#8217;s why this early and practical way of energy harvesting got forbidden ever since. Wonder what happens if you place energy suckers near enough to other types of transmitters? Will these transmitters go bust as well? Will the drain of power be noticed and the transmitter cranks up the power to compensate &#8211; which completely disrupts the idea of only harvesting energy that is there &#8220;anyway&#8221; and &#8220;for free&#8221;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: J.S. @EM</title>
		<link>http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/05/28/extreme-processing-rf-energy-harvesting/#comment-872</link>
		<dc:creator>J.S. @EM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 20:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robert.blogs.embeddedinsights.com/2010/05/28/extreme-processing-rf-energy-harvesting/#comment-872</guid>
		<description>Using an intentional transmitter of 4W to power a small (low power) device seems a big waste of energy. The whole point of Energy Harvesting in my mind was that it scavenged energy from its environment. This is worth doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Using an intentional transmitter of 4W to power a small (low power) device seems a big waste of energy. The whole point of Energy Harvesting in my mind was that it scavenged energy from its environment. This is worth doing.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: A.R. @EM</title>
		<link>http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/05/28/extreme-processing-rf-energy-harvesting/#comment-871</link>
		<dc:creator>A.R. @EM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 03:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://robert.blogs.embeddedinsights.com/2010/05/28/extreme-processing-rf-energy-harvesting/#comment-871</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I would not be surprised if this practice becomes illegal in some countries if not already. I believe there is at least one precedent case where a person residing close to a powerful radio transmitter was prosecuted for energy theft.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would not be surprised if this practice becomes illegal in some countries if not already. I believe there is at least one precedent case where a person residing close to a powerful radio transmitter was prosecuted for energy theft.</p>
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