Comments on: When is “cutting corners” good engineering versus derelict complacency? http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/06/16/when-is-%e2%80%9ccutting-corners%e2%80%9d-good-engineering-versus-derelict-complacency/ Shedding Light on the Hidden World of Embedded Systems Mon, 28 Jul 2014 16:18:37 -0400 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: L.R. @LI http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/06/16/when-is-%e2%80%9ccutting-corners%e2%80%9d-good-engineering-versus-derelict-complacency/#comment-898 L.R. @LI Thu, 24 Jun 2010 19:49:09 +0000 http://robert.blogs.embeddedinsights.com/2010/06/16/when-is-%e2%80%9ccutting-corners%e2%80%9d-good-engineering-versus-derelict-complacency/#comment-898 When you say "cutting corners" it sounds negative, perhaps even sinister, but engineering is all about compromises between function and cost. Very few buildings can withstand the impact of a jet airliner, one exception is a buclear power plant building. Besides, who would want to live in an underground bunker or even afford one ? As to cars, under severe cirumstances they all may catch fire or crash their passenger if hit by a larger vehicle, but would anyone really like to drive a semi to work (or afford its fuel consumption) ? IThere are areas where a government is prescribing certain standards, then the engineers do not need to consider all the possible tradeoffs, and have instead to comply to a certain building code, which releives them from responsability in the event that a structure failed despite being built to code, e.g. because of an event exceeding the maximum specifications of the mandatory building standard. But there are engineers working for the government who put together these specifications and are in charge of making comprimises. It takes experience to excell in trade offs, which is why managerial positions are typically filled by experienced engineers who are authorized to decide. When you say “cutting corners” it sounds negative, perhaps even sinister, but engineering is all about compromises between function and cost.
Very few buildings can withstand the impact of a jet airliner, one exception is a buclear power plant building. Besides, who would want to live in an underground bunker or even afford one ? As to cars, under severe cirumstances they all may catch fire or crash their passenger if hit by a larger vehicle, but would anyone really like to drive a semi to work (or afford its fuel consumption) ?
IThere are areas where a government is prescribing certain standards, then the engineers do not need to consider all the possible tradeoffs, and have instead to comply to a certain building code, which releives them from responsability in the event that a structure failed despite being built to code, e.g. because of an event exceeding the maximum specifications of the mandatory building standard. But there are engineers working for the government who put together these specifications and are in charge of making comprimises.
It takes experience to excell in trade offs, which is why managerial positions are typically filled by experienced engineers who are authorized to decide.

]]> By: J.L. @LI http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/06/16/when-is-%e2%80%9ccutting-corners%e2%80%9d-good-engineering-versus-derelict-complacency/#comment-897 J.L. @LI Mon, 21 Jun 2010 02:12:11 +0000 http://robert.blogs.embeddedinsights.com/2010/06/16/when-is-%e2%80%9ccutting-corners%e2%80%9d-good-engineering-versus-derelict-complacency/#comment-897 Our job is to make things as simple as necessary but no more simple than the project requires. Our job is to make things as simple as necessary but no more simple than the project requires.

]]> By: P.B. @LI http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/06/16/when-is-%e2%80%9ccutting-corners%e2%80%9d-good-engineering-versus-derelict-complacency/#comment-896 P.B. @LI Sun, 20 Jun 2010 07:25:55 +0000 http://robert.blogs.embeddedinsights.com/2010/06/16/when-is-%e2%80%9ccutting-corners%e2%80%9d-good-engineering-versus-derelict-complacency/#comment-896 Cutting corners .... I thought engineers build scale models of bridges to test out strength and run simulations to see how making changes impact things. Are skyscrapers over engineered? Depends on the criteria for earthquakes, wind, planes crashing into the building .... I think people have managed to cut costs on building skyscrapers without having the buildings collapse. There was a car who cut costs on a gas tank that exploded (Pinto?) where they used some value for the loss of a life, but they found out that the lawsuits cost more than fixing the problem, and the lawsuits were higher than their calculations on loss of life. Do you want your doctor cutting corners when you in in the middle of open heart surgery? Does the airplane mechanic cut corners on the commercial jet engine repair? Or does the airline cut reserve fuel because it probably won't be needed? I think that there are times and places that you don't have the necessary experience, knowledge, and authority to cut corners. First you have to be able to do a job correctly. Once you master doing it correctly, you can optimize and find better solutions. You don't find a cheaper solution the first or second time, when you don't know all the consequences. This is why it is wrong for $$$ management to force technical decisions. Would you want your hospital to save money by not sterilizing operating room equipment? It certainly would generate more profit for the hospital, but the patients would suffer more. Ethics come into the equation. Unfortunately, business school tends not to reward ethics, as this does not maximize $$$. Cutting corners …. I thought engineers build scale models of bridges to test out strength and run simulations to see how making changes impact things. Are skyscrapers over engineered? Depends on the criteria for earthquakes, wind, planes crashing into the building …. I think people have managed to cut costs on building skyscrapers without having the buildings collapse.

There was a car who cut costs on a gas tank that exploded (Pinto?) where they used some value for the loss of a life, but they found out that the lawsuits cost more than fixing the problem, and the lawsuits were higher than their calculations on loss of life.

Do you want your doctor cutting corners when you in in the middle of open heart surgery? Does the airplane mechanic cut corners on the commercial jet engine repair? Or does the airline cut reserve fuel because it probably won’t be needed?

I think that there are times and places that you don’t have the necessary experience, knowledge, and authority to cut corners. First you have to be able to do a job correctly. Once you master doing it correctly, you can optimize and find better solutions. You don’t find a cheaper solution the first or second time, when you don’t know all the consequences.

This is why it is wrong for $$$ management to force technical decisions. Would you want your hospital to save money by not sterilizing operating room equipment? It certainly would generate more profit for the hospital, but the patients would suffer more.

Ethics come into the equation. Unfortunately, business school tends not to reward ethics, as this does not maximize $$$.

]]> By: L.R. @LI http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/06/16/when-is-%e2%80%9ccutting-corners%e2%80%9d-good-engineering-versus-derelict-complacency/#comment-895 L.R. @LI Sun, 20 Jun 2010 07:24:27 +0000 http://robert.blogs.embeddedinsights.com/2010/06/16/when-is-%e2%80%9ccutting-corners%e2%80%9d-good-engineering-versus-derelict-complacency/#comment-895 There are plenty of very succesful "good-enough" technologies, far from perfect, but just right - ready in time and cost that does not exceed value, and there are plenty examples of failed attempts at making something that is "perfect". (for this group TokenRing ring a bell?). Businesses are driven by profit, and thus they must weigh the cost of taking a risk vs. the cost of avoiding that same risk. There are many examples of bad risk calculations in either direction - sometime a risk is underestimated, which leads to a disaster taking the company down, other times, ompanies spend themselves to death by trying to avoid risks that are overestimated. Either way, the result is the same, and that is essentially the evolutionary process that we learn from, by trying to learn from the mistakes of failed companies while immitating those that are thriving. BP is a sad story IMO. Present law limits their liability to $75M per incident, and it was a huge mistake on their part to ignore the political pressure that could result from an environmental disaster making the liability limitation irrelevant. On the other hand, both BP and the goverment regulators were unaware of the special technical difficulties related to drilling at such a depth, thinking perhaps that drilling further away from shore is less risky. This is not entirely an engineering issue, but a combination of several disciplines that must all work for a business to succeed. There are plenty of very succesful “good-enough” technologies, far from perfect, but just right – ready in time and cost that does not exceed value, and there are plenty examples of failed attempts at making something that is “perfect”. (for this group TokenRing ring a bell?).

Businesses are driven by profit, and thus they must weigh the cost of taking a risk vs. the cost of avoiding that same risk. There are many examples of bad risk calculations in either direction – sometime a risk is underestimated, which leads to a disaster taking the company down, other times, ompanies spend themselves to death by trying to avoid risks that are overestimated. Either way, the result is the same, and that is essentially the evolutionary process that we learn from, by trying to learn from the mistakes of failed companies while immitating those that are thriving.

BP is a sad story IMO. Present law limits their liability to $75M per incident, and it was a huge mistake on their part to ignore the political pressure that could result from an environmental disaster making the liability limitation irrelevant. On the other hand, both BP and the goverment regulators were unaware of the special technical difficulties related to drilling at such a depth, thinking perhaps that drilling further away from shore is less risky.

This is not entirely an engineering issue, but a combination of several disciplines that must all work for a business to succeed.

]]> By: R.J. @LI http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/06/16/when-is-%e2%80%9ccutting-corners%e2%80%9d-good-engineering-versus-derelict-complacency/#comment-894 R.J. @LI Sat, 19 Jun 2010 07:04:36 +0000 http://robert.blogs.embeddedinsights.com/2010/06/16/when-is-%e2%80%9ccutting-corners%e2%80%9d-good-engineering-versus-derelict-complacency/#comment-894 It takes far less time to do it right the first time than it does to fix it over and over again after you did it wrong. It takes far less time to do it right the first time than it does to fix it over and over again after you did it wrong.

]]> By: R.S. @LI http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/06/16/when-is-%e2%80%9ccutting-corners%e2%80%9d-good-engineering-versus-derelict-complacency/#comment-893 R.S. @LI Fri, 18 Jun 2010 19:41:54 +0000 http://robert.blogs.embeddedinsights.com/2010/06/16/when-is-%e2%80%9ccutting-corners%e2%80%9d-good-engineering-versus-derelict-complacency/#comment-893 "When is “cutting corners” good engineering versus derelict complacency?" 1. safety 2. safety 3. safety “When is “cutting corners” good engineering versus derelict complacency?”
1. safety
2. safety
3. safety

]]>