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	<title>Comments on: How do you handle contractual indemnity and liabilities for embedded systems?</title>
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	<link>http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/11/10/how-do-you-handle-contractual-indemnity-and-liabilities-for-embedded-systems/</link>
	<description>Shedding Light on the Hidden World of Embedded Systems</description>
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		<title>By: M.F. @ LI</title>
		<link>http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/11/10/how-do-you-handle-contractual-indemnity-and-liabilities-for-embedded-systems/#comment-4511</link>
		<dc:creator>M.F. @ LI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Dec 2010 23:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/?p=372#comment-4511</guid>
		<description>There are actually fewer carriers/providers of professional liability insurance around, but I wouldn&#039;t advise anyone to work in this field without it. As part of obtaining said coverage, you DO need to use written contracts - either yours or clients - with liability/indemnity clauses in most cases. I am not sure with insurance business the way it is if many clients will offer/allow to cover you under their policy these days for this type of work - the coverage is expensive and larger companies usually may be required to put up a substantial &quot;bond&quot; as collateral with their policy to cover permanent employees</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are actually fewer carriers/providers of professional liability insurance around, but I wouldn&#8217;t advise anyone to work in this field without it. As part of obtaining said coverage, you DO need to use written contracts &#8211; either yours or clients &#8211; with liability/indemnity clauses in most cases. I am not sure with insurance business the way it is if many clients will offer/allow to cover you under their policy these days for this type of work &#8211; the coverage is expensive and larger companies usually may be required to put up a substantial &#8220;bond&#8221; as collateral with their policy to cover permanent employees</p>
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		<title>By: R.A. @LI</title>
		<link>http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/11/10/how-do-you-handle-contractual-indemnity-and-liabilities-for-embedded-systems/#comment-4312</link>
		<dc:creator>R.A. @LI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 18:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/?p=372#comment-4312</guid>
		<description>&quot;Open-source seems the proverbial monkey-wrench in this respect, as it is quite impossible to know if someone did not steal a peice of software to redistribute it under GPL ...&quot;

I think it is possible to know whether GPL&#039;d code was incorporated into a work; in fact, there are software companies that make a business of automating the process of detecting when GPL code has been incorporated into a source base.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Open-source seems the proverbial monkey-wrench in this respect, as it is quite impossible to know if someone did not steal a peice of software to redistribute it under GPL &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it is possible to know whether GPL&#8217;d code was incorporated into a work; in fact, there are software companies that make a business of automating the process of detecting when GPL code has been incorporated into a source base.</p>
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		<title>By: L.R. @LI</title>
		<link>http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/11/10/how-do-you-handle-contractual-indemnity-and-liabilities-for-embedded-systems/#comment-4311</link>
		<dc:creator>L.R. @LI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 18:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/?p=372#comment-4311</guid>
		<description>There are basically two distinct types of liability:

One has to do with the risk of a product malfunction, and any direct damages it may cause. This is partially mitigated with the various certifications (UL, HALT et al), and several safety standards for software and communications. Following a widely accepted standard or &quot;accepted industry practices&quot; is a good measure of protection, as well as the relevant insurance.

The other is related to the intelletual property within the product, and the risk of being sued for copyright or patent infringement. I do not know of any standard or insurance to cover for this type of liability, but some vendors will offer to indemnify their customer for the use of their software, and assume all reponsability related to their product.

Open-source seems the proverbial monkey-wrench in this respect, as it is quite impossible to know if someone did not steal a peice of software to redistribute it under GPL ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are basically two distinct types of liability:</p>
<p>One has to do with the risk of a product malfunction, and any direct damages it may cause. This is partially mitigated with the various certifications (UL, HALT et al), and several safety standards for software and communications. Following a widely accepted standard or &#8220;accepted industry practices&#8221; is a good measure of protection, as well as the relevant insurance.</p>
<p>The other is related to the intelletual property within the product, and the risk of being sued for copyright or patent infringement. I do not know of any standard or insurance to cover for this type of liability, but some vendors will offer to indemnify their customer for the use of their software, and assume all reponsability related to their product.</p>
<p>Open-source seems the proverbial monkey-wrench in this respect, as it is quite impossible to know if someone did not steal a peice of software to redistribute it under GPL &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: L.W. @LI</title>
		<link>http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/11/10/how-do-you-handle-contractual-indemnity-and-liabilities-for-embedded-systems/#comment-4310</link>
		<dc:creator>L.W. @LI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 18:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/?p=372#comment-4310</guid>
		<description>Interesting topic.

As much as I hate the insurance industry, it is imperative that embedded developers maintain some professional liability insurance. I&#039;ve often been asked why my rates are higher than others. I always respond &quot;For starters, have you asked the others if they are insured for errors and omissions? They probably aren&#039;t, especially if they are small houses like me.&quot;

Now comes the really difficult part for the developer: Finding an insurance agent and carrier who knows ANYTHING about embedded systems. Risk is a four letter word, and insurance carriers who don&#039;t know much about a type of business (i.e., you don&#039;t fit cleanly into a NAICS code) will add you to the high-risk bin resulting in cost-prohibitive premiums. I&#039;ve suffered through this for years, and almost had to shut down a company over it a few years back.

The other thing a developer can do to limit risk is actually free to both parties: Require that the customer add them as a named-insured on their liability policy. This costs the customer nothing, and likewise costs the developer nothing. I learned this little gem from my father who used to do something similar in the trucking industry (apparently it&#039;s not that unusual there). This only helps when a third party sues you and/or the customer, and does not help when the customer sues you directly.

If you can get the customer to sign your agreement (as opposed to you signing theirs), be sure it contains an indemnity clause of your own, requiring that they indemnify you. 

Speaking of your agreement, I have a clause in mine that states (in not so many words) that the customer understands the risks associated with developing embedded systems, that no computing platform is impervious to failure, and that they are assuming the risks associated therewith. I&#039;ve never had anyone complain about this clause.

Please note that I am not a lawyer and I am not dispensing legal advise. I&#039;m only stating things that I have done in the past. Fortunately, I&#039;ve never had to put any of these things to the ultimate test.

L., you do bring up an interesting problem with the open-source issue. I hadn&#039;t considered that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting topic.</p>
<p>As much as I hate the insurance industry, it is imperative that embedded developers maintain some professional liability insurance. I&#8217;ve often been asked why my rates are higher than others. I always respond &#8220;For starters, have you asked the others if they are insured for errors and omissions? They probably aren&#8217;t, especially if they are small houses like me.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now comes the really difficult part for the developer: Finding an insurance agent and carrier who knows ANYTHING about embedded systems. Risk is a four letter word, and insurance carriers who don&#8217;t know much about a type of business (i.e., you don&#8217;t fit cleanly into a NAICS code) will add you to the high-risk bin resulting in cost-prohibitive premiums. I&#8217;ve suffered through this for years, and almost had to shut down a company over it a few years back.</p>
<p>The other thing a developer can do to limit risk is actually free to both parties: Require that the customer add them as a named-insured on their liability policy. This costs the customer nothing, and likewise costs the developer nothing. I learned this little gem from my father who used to do something similar in the trucking industry (apparently it&#8217;s not that unusual there). This only helps when a third party sues you and/or the customer, and does not help when the customer sues you directly.</p>
<p>If you can get the customer to sign your agreement (as opposed to you signing theirs), be sure it contains an indemnity clause of your own, requiring that they indemnify you. </p>
<p>Speaking of your agreement, I have a clause in mine that states (in not so many words) that the customer understands the risks associated with developing embedded systems, that no computing platform is impervious to failure, and that they are assuming the risks associated therewith. I&#8217;ve never had anyone complain about this clause.</p>
<p>Please note that I am not a lawyer and I am not dispensing legal advise. I&#8217;m only stating things that I have done in the past. Fortunately, I&#8217;ve never had to put any of these things to the ultimate test.</p>
<p>L., you do bring up an interesting problem with the open-source issue. I hadn&#8217;t considered that.</p>
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		<title>By: L.R. @LI</title>
		<link>http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/11/10/how-do-you-handle-contractual-indemnity-and-liabilities-for-embedded-systems/#comment-4307</link>
		<dc:creator>L.R. @LI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Nov 2010 09:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/?p=372#comment-4307</guid>
		<description>In my experience most embedded developers are unaware of the legal implications of their work.
One peculiar aspect of liability I have encountered occurs with the adoption of open-soure code into an embedded system. In some cases a key reason to avoid open-source altogether is to gain indemnity from a supplier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my experience most embedded developers are unaware of the legal implications of their work.<br />
One peculiar aspect of liability I have encountered occurs with the adoption of open-soure code into an embedded system. In some cases a key reason to avoid open-source altogether is to gain indemnity from a supplier.</p>
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